MRA vs MGTOW: Explaining the MRM

The men’s rights movement is stupid. All MRAs are doing trying to change laws, sending men right back on the plantation. MGTOW is the only way.

Now, I have read that kind of comment, in a hundred different forms and expressions over the past several years. I have heard similar sentiments expressed on some MGTOW YouTube channels that I follow.

It leaves me in a bit of a quandary. On one hand I think red pill philosophy, especially MGTOW, is probably the greatest gift to men ever. I’m in awe of it’s potential for men and boys. On the other hand I detest ignorance, even when practiced by people I otherwise admire.

So here I want to tackle the us vs. them-ism that sometimes shows itself between MRAs and MGTOW, and what I think is mostly at the root of it, which is a failure on the part of some MGTOW to understand the MRM.

Having said that, that I think the source of misunderstanding is mostly the mythology embraced by some men who identify as MGTOW, I also have to say that I don’t see these guys as representative of most men who identify as going their own way. Not only that, it isn’t that I am claiming perfection on behalf of MRAs.

I have been at this long enough to meet and interact with ignorant assholes on both sides of the fence. Unfortunately, plenty of them. I say this because it’s true, and because I want to in advance invite anyone who claims I am attacking MGTOW to stick it where the sun don’t shine. If you need to be a victim that bad, feminism is a better fit for you.

What I want to do here is explain what the MRM is and do it with the relatively new denizens of the red pillasphere in mind; those who haven’t been a part of this through all the growing pains. And I want to do it against the backdrop of the false, “MRAs are working with the system” narrative.

In doing this, it’s also important for me to point out that my only experience with this is through AVFM. While I think AVFM is now definitive of what we call men’s rights activism, it’s not the end word on the subject. The MRM is small, but not inconsequentially so.

But from the AVFM perspective, and mine personally as an MRA, it is hard to imagine how anyone could be so completely wrongheaded as to conclude that we were trying to work with the system. Or that we were trying to change laws.

First, I extend a very cordial invitation to anyone to sift through the 6,000 plus articles on A Voice for Men and find one example to support the claim that we took up any sort of political or legal advocacy. I can save you the trouble, though. You will pull up a goose egg.

What you would find, though, if you were to scour though that mountain of text, is a long history of social provocation. You will see time after time where AVFM sends the gynocentric outrage machine into overdrive, triggering the shit out of the very same people and groups you will see denounced and criticized in every MGTOW forum and video channel across the web.

There is a reason for that, which I think may have escaped some MGTOW commentators. It is to send more men directly to those forums and YouTube channels, and into red pill life.

By pissing on sacred cows and crossing lines that most good cucks would not dare of crossing, we drew outrage from the mainstream media, which was the only attention the men’s movement was or is going to get.

That outrage, and all the hit pieces that came with it, wasn’t backlash we were trying to limit. It was the exact result we were looking for. The gynocentric outrage machine isn’t just harsh. It’s high profile. High enough profile that the effect of badmouthing us so feverishly also sent people right through our front door.

MRAs and MGTOW both benefitted from that, which is to say that the men who found us benefitted from it. And the benefit wasn’t with changing laws or endorsing politicians. It was in having the lights turned on when they found our material. Many men, not being able to unsee what we have shown them.

With the work that we did, we attracted a young feminist filmmaker who wanted to document our hateful ways and ended up having her world rocked. She ultimately made a movie that shoved another big fat red pill down society’s throat.

Now there is red pill everywhere. And it continues to be seen as the threat to gynocentrism that it is. Even Maroon 5 is under fire now for their new album, Red Pill Blues, though I doubt Adam Levine is anything less than a confirmed gynocentrist.

Much of this happened because of AVFM’s brand of activism, which had nothing to do with working with the system. Hell, we never wanted to work with the system. We just wanted to kick it in the genitals, as an equal opportunity kicker.

AVFM has had three taglines. We started with “Take the Red Pill” and now go by men’s health, no apologies. In between those two, and by far for the longest time, our tagline was “Changing the Cultural Narrative.

Not changing laws. Not changing politicians. Changing the narrative. The same exact thing MGTOW commentators have been doing during the same time. And largely with the same message. Criticizing gynocentrism, supporting the marriage strike and encouraging men to take a second, much closer and more analytical look at the world they live in, and to adapt effectively based on the new information.

We have stayed so in focus on these matters that we have sometimes tested the resolve of non-gynocentric traditionalists who have been long time supporters of our work. Yeah, I am talking to you TMOTS and GOM, with great appreciation for all you have done.

Now, for the sake of full disclosure I have to admit there are a lot of legal and political changes I’d like to see. And we have already seen some of it, a prime example being the gutting of Obama’s Dear Colleague Letter by the Trump Administration.

Now, Trump isn’t any more red pill than Adam Levine, but he doing some things right, taking real action to correct the Title IX nightmares among them. Even the mainstream media recognizes that boisterous criticism, which ultimately culminated in Trump’s actions, originated with men’s rights activists. Well, they were partly right. MGTOWs were making noise at the same exact time for the same exact reasons. If you are MGTOW, you know this to be true. And don’t worry, I won’t accuse you of working with the system just because you played a role in the system changing.

I figured out a long time ago that cultural change precedes legal change. And that cultures change when their narrative changes, hence the time-honored tagline at A Voice for Men.

Now, I really understand the confusion. When you identify as an activist for certain rights, the modern western mind conjures up images of protests and lobbying politicians. All I can say about that is that the subtlety of social activism in the way AVFM does it isn’t going to register with people, even red pill people, whose ability to interpret the world is detrimentally literal.

That is not to say that the more standard activism is not practiced. It certainly is. There is shared parenting advocates in most states now. People who are looking to reform divorce laws and who try to use traditional means to deal with things like parental alienation.

Guess what the last thing they want to be called is? You got it, MRAs. I have several groups right now that bcc their email list communications because they don’t want others on the list to know I am even watching. The men’s rights movement, in their minds, is like their rich, embarrassing uncle, only in this case we are the uncle that has some media reach, not money.

I don’t offer these groups any assistance, and don’t even know why they want me secretly in the loop. I’ve known for a long time that they want to use MRAs when convenient and would disown us in a nanosecond if they ever got caught talking to us. They’d sooner be shot than make a public proclamation supporting men’s rights.

Still, they are very useful. Doing good work in their own way. And whenever anything they do goes public, they serve as the same gateway for some men to red pill life as does MGTOW and the MRM.

Even the few MGTOWs I have taken issue with; those so obsessed with hating anything vagina that they can’t see or think straight, serve the same purpose, even if they are the same ones clutching pearls over myths about the MRM. They carry the same torch. And after all, this movement, which I now prefer to refer to as Red Pill vs MRA or MGTOW, was born of the walking wounded.

We became a movement, albeit in different forms, because the lives of men and boys are being destroyed. Personally, I think getting hung up on a label, or peddling false narratives, or seeing the route back to the plantation around every turn, is a bit foolish, or at the very least simple-minded.

But I still think it is better than life as a blue pill zombie.

These guys who somehow perform the mental gymnastics to conclude that AVFM, myself personally or the MRM generally speaking is out to get them, are an occasional annoyance. But I try my best to remember well that they too are playing a role in freeing men from the bondage of gynocentrism. They are as valuable to the red pill movement as anyone else, perhaps because of their feral ways rather than in spite of them.

To be sure, this is not an appeal for a kumbaya moment where we all just join hands and, in the words of Rodney King, just get along. It’s just an effort to set the record straight and sweep some of the bullshit off my own porch.

Recommended Content

Skip to toolbar