Elam vs Frost: Round 2 – Frost Speaks

In Which I Recruit Paul’s Readers To My PUA Death Cult

First, a disclaimer.

I strongly recommend that Paul’s more sensitive and impressionable readers click away, and far away, from this post. I’m about to lure you into the secret cult of pick-up artistry, pussy-begging, and pedestalizing. If you resist, beware: I have shaming language, and I’m not afraid to use it. Continue reading, if you dare, but don’t be surprised if you black out and wake up next to a paid-in-full copy of my $599 DVD set.

Still here? I guess you’re feeling lucky. Good. Me too.

You can find links to the exchange that led to this debate here. But most of you are already familiar with the terms: Age and Guile Vs. Youth, Innocence, and bad graphic design, on the subject of Game and Men’s Rights.

Note that this is not a debate between Game and the MRM. At least, not for me. I am a fan of both. If Paul and I were to chat about family law, false rape accusations, anti-masculine biases in our media and pop culture, and the wisdom of marriage for 21st century Western men, I’m sure we would find much to agree upon.

The real question du jour, is thus: What is the relationship, if any, between Game and the MRM? I believe they make fine bedfellows. Paul however, seems intent on offering some token last-minute resistance, which I’d like to overcome.

Let’s start by asking: What is Game? The meaning of the word remains unclear, even among this small and incestuous corner of the blogosphere, so let’s lock down a specific definition:

Game is the study of how women respond to men’s behaviour.

I predict that many AVFM reader will take issue with such a broad definition. Game, to them, must include shiny clothes, effeminate mannerisms, hoop-jumping, and whatever other behaviours that they would like to associate with we ‘Gamers’.

But I ask: If you quarrel with this definition, why? Neither I, nor Roissy, Roosh, Dagonet, Assanova, Gmac, Danger and Play, Badger,  Private Man, or FFY are committed to any specific ‘school’ of Game. We’re just a community of men, sharing what we know about women and relationships. Whatever your mental stereotype of a ‘Gamer’ is, I guarantee that at least one of the men on that list doesn’t fit it. We learn from each other, we experiment for ourselves, and we use whatever helps us achieve our goals with women, discarding the rest. Precisely what those goals are varies across men – some are only interested in one night stands, some are seeking one good, trustworthy woman to make a wife out of, and most fall somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

The bottom line is that Game is a tool men can use to increase their success with women. No more, no less. If a man chooses to eschew sex for life, I admit he will have no use for Game. Otherwise, he would be a fool to dismiss the idea of thinking critically about his interactions with women.

There are two possible reasons why Paul and other MRAs might disapprove of Game.

1) You think that our specific teachings are flawed.

This is the basic point Paul is making in his original Chateau Bullshit post:

“O.K., so you want to get laid? Here’s how you do it. Smell clean, get in the proximity of women, and then ignore them. When they come to fuck you, and they will, shut up and let it happen.

Sorry, but there is little else to it. Women are wired to respond to men who walk with enough self-confidence and involvement in their own lives that they don’t need to invest any energy into bagging girls. They attract women naturally.”

In other words, there is no need for men to read Roissy et al. Having relationships with top-tier women is so easy that the only thing a man (any man!) must do is shower, and he will be irresistible.

Now, for all I know, Paul Elam really is such an insanely attractive man that he is honestly relating his personal experience to us in those words. Perhaps he really can consistently sleep with extremely high-quality women, merely by sidling up to them and radiating Paul-ness.

If so Paul, you’re a lucky dog. If you ever roll out a DVD set, seminar, or coaching sessions, I’ll be first in line.

But until then, I have to remind you: Your personal experience as an unstoppable force of sexual energy is not indicative of the challenges that mere ordinary men face, if they want to have the same good fortune you do. Don’t believe me? Head to a night club. Wait by the door and count the men as they leave, frustrated and alone. Or, create a fake female online dating profile. Watch as the messages from desperate, lonely men pour into your inbox.

I do quite well for myself with women, better than 95% of men in my generation I’d wager, and I still have to do quite a bit more than shower, if I want to consistently sleep with the kind of women I want. Sad, I know.

Maybe I’ll never convince Paul that most men have to work for our food, since he apparently does not. But those of you in our live studio audience have seen reality, and you know which of Paul or I has a firmer grasp on it. The ‘cult’ of Game does not have all the answers for you, but we can at least offer you better than “go take a shower.”

Of course, not everyone is interested in self-improvement. Which brings us to our next possible objection:

2) You object to the general idea of improving your relationships with women

All this talk about ‘just take a shower’  being the sum total of advice a man needs with regard to women, is a bit silly. I don’t think Paul actually believes that the legions of young men who are not meeting women, not getting laid, and not having fulfilling relationships with women, just need a bucket of warm soapy water to achieve their wildest penthouse-letters-esque fantasies.

Deep down, Paul realizes that consistently sleeping with attractive women is something that almost all men want to do, and only a small number of men actually do. If it were easy, you’d all be out doing it right now.

One of the human brain’s favourite hobbies is self-deception. If we can’t have something, we rationalize that we didn’t want it anyways. We avoid starting an exercise program, so we can eliminate the risk of failing. We don’t talk to that pretty girl, so we can tell ourselves later that maybe we could have slept with her, if only we’d tried.

It’s easy to make excuses to avoid going after the things we want in life, and easier still when someone else offers to make the excuses for us. Personally, I’m wary of any belief system that seems to give me an easy way to justify taking the easy road. Especially when that belief system makes multiple demonstratably false and often contradictory assumptions:

– Game is demeaning to you, as a man!

– Game is worthless and unnecessary! Just take a shower!

– Game is all about jumping through hoops, eating shit, and acting like a pussy!

– Gamers are frauds!

– There is no overlap between Game and MRA! Gamers are wholly unconcerned with the MRM!

If necessary, I will thoroughly debunk the first four claims in the comments of this post. Here on the main stage though, to give Paul some ammunition for round #2, I will close by making a few points with regard to the last:

– The people you call “Gamers” are simply those who understand socio-biology and gender politics, and have chosen to use that understanding to improve their personal lives

– Game is the Men’s Rights Movement’s most powerful weapon in the battle against feminism

– Roissy has done more to empower 21st century men than A Voice For Men by an order of magnitude. Show a little respect.

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