Today AVFM received an email from a fan of the site. Some readers might remember that back in October, a Chicago mommy blogger named Jenna Myers Karvunidis famously pressured her daughter’s pre-school into excluding fathers from participation in shared supervision of toddlers – Based on the egregiously false and hateful claim, made by Karvunidis that “99% of sexual predators are men, only 1% are women.”
As this is a men’s rights website, run by men’s rights activists, a major fraction of the work we do is to debunk lies like this one. Lies which continue to be promoted by the feminist mainstream in complete knowledge of their falsehood, and which serve to demonize and marginalize men in our society.
Karvunidis’s article made it clear that she knew she was indulging biased, bigoted and reactionary thinking – she was quite explicit in saying so.
“I know I’m being sexist. ”
“I understand I could be wrong and we’re not in the “socio-economic risk demograhic.” I get it, but I don’t feel it. “
I’m quite sure that in the mid 20th century, the wives of klansmen knew at an intellectual level that the blacks their husbands lynched were just decent men caught in an age of acceptable hatred, but they still feared those black man, so killing them felt right.
On discovering Karvunidis’s public promotion of factually false, male targeting hate, I posted a comment on her blog. The text of that comment was exactly as follows.
Jenna Myers Karvunidis. Your claimed, but unsourced statistic – that 99% of sexual predators are men, only 1% are women is an egregiously false, and hateful lie. And when we discuss abuse of children, as your article focuses on, then a factually backed up claim would be that women are the world’s champions at abusing children.
The US Department of health and Human Services show mothers abusing children at more than double the rate of fathers.
This was a relatively mild rebuke, and provided Karvunidis a reputably sourced statistic in correction of her own false claim, as well as an opportunity to directly address and correct the open bigotry of her original posting.
My comment, posted on her blog was removed within 24 hours. What followed was a series of puerile taunts from Karvunidis – including the accusation that men objecting to her unsourced 99% were themselves sexual predators attempting to molest Karvunidis ‘s daughter. The depravity of this claim by Karvunidis exceeds my descriptive powers.
The chicago mother and blogger, once faced by a rising tide of public objection to her promotion of male targeting hatred and lies declared herself proud to be a bigot.
On October 19 2011, She was listed on a registry of female murderers, false accusers, corrupt public officials, and bigots – under the category of offence of Bigot.
Within a week – An email arrived from Jenna Karvunidis claiming to have seen her error, and promising a public apology. In this email, she acknowledged that men are routinely demolished by unsupported accusation from women.
“I now realize many of the men so outraged at me were victims themselves. It sincerely hurts my heart to have caused any damage to a group of people. I had never heard of MRA before this incident and am saddened to learn about the plight of men in this modern world. It indeed must be terrifying to live under the constant possibility that a woman’s word will be taken at face value and ruin your life.”
She further stated her intent to correct, to the degree she could, the damage done by promotion of hateful lies on her relatively high profile blog.
“Please allow me to make this right. True, I am concerned about my online presence to a degree and the thorn my profile here has caused. More so troubling me is the fact that I spoke out having NO idea of the harm my speech could do.
I would be more than happy to post a sincere apology on my blog along with better statistics, perhaps shedding light on a topic so many people are in the dark about. MRA issues are a completely new concept to me, but indeed a worthy one.”
And she did in fact post a follow up article, which had some of the characteristics of an apology. Unfortunately, that posting finished with a disclaimer, which rendered the preceding text void.
“I will remove this post if any further negativity is directed at me or my family and I reserve the right to moderate comments.”
Several people besides Karvunidis commented on this site and others demanding the removal of Karvunidis from the registry of offenders. These postings moved me to write an article explaining exactly why a public promoter of anti-male bigotry would not be de-listed from the bigot category on register-her.com. That article is here.
The last paragraph, for anybody without the inclination to read it in full is quoted here:
This is why identifying, documenting and publicly exposing ideologues matters. It is opposition to hate and violence. This is the reason that among rapists, killers, false rape accusers – the category of Bigot exists on the site register-her.com. It is why we identify ideological bigots, shine a bright light on them for the world to see, and afford promoters of hate no mercy – and no rest.
This brings us to today, and a new friend of the site who has emailed us. It is Jenna’s husband – and his email betrays a degree of confusion which occasions my summary on events in the preceding paragraphs. The text of his missive is included here. I will address his several points below.
Dear Paul Elam,
Now I know some time has passed and I normally don’t get involved in my wife’s internet affairs, but I think at this point its safe to say that the vicious defamation that took place a couple weeks back against my wife went way too far. I figured all the hoopla would blow over in a couple days, but of course it didn’t – mostly because of yours and related websites condemning feminists. What’s really amazing is that she is being decried as a feminist when in fact she is and we are very traditional in most of our beliefs.
Let me first say that Jenna and I are in COMPLETE agreement that we did not want the neighborhood Dads who happen to volunteer at our school help my little daughter in the bathroom. Nor would I want to be put in the position to have to perform this task if I was asked to help out. Let us be clear that this, and only this, is the issue at hand.
Jenna has weathered this storm as an individual but she did not act alone in this matter with the school. Our whole extended family discussed this matter and agreed that no matter the gender, we were concerned with the schools policy, or lack there of. Additionally, she cited a statistic from the Abe & Harlow Molestation Prevention Study which she was chastised for. Now it seems that these statistics are in dispute, which is fine, but shouldn’t that organization be the one that receives your angst?
I beg the question, is our family questioning the schools toilet policy a reason to persecute and embarrass a person – especially one that has apologized to those that she offended? Is it a reason to ruin someone’s all too important web image in our new internet-based world? I imagine you have bigger fish to fry than a pre-school Mom spooked by a child abuse study.
What has subsequently taken place since the original post is a complete and utter misunderstanding of what was intended. The relentless verbal attack is not warranted in any way, shape, or form. The fact she continues to be placed on Register-Her.com as a sex offender is quite ludicrious.
So I implore you Paul, please do us all a favor and cease and desist. Sounds like a lot of your followers have reached the same conclusion. If you want to have an effective registry, at least pick on targets you can all agree are a threat.
So as you would say:
And I naively thought it would go away.
We are not smiling about it any more.
Thank you for your consideration
For the remainder of this article, I will directly address this email’s author.
Good afternoon Mr Karvunidis, thanks for your letter. Paul is out of the office this week, so you’ll be dealing with me on this matter. I am the co-host of Mr Elam’s radio show, and I also do videos. You might enjoy my recent treatment of a eugenics enthusiast and female supremacist named Pam O’Shaughnessy.
But let us address your concerns Niko, starting with “vicious defamation”. This is a mischaracterization of our treatment of your wife. Prior to Mr Elam taking some time away from the running of operations at AVFM – he has consistently moderated the enthusiasm of other contributors such as myself. While Paul is this site’s founder and senior member of the editorial board, he is considerably more conservative in his brand of activism than what some members prefer. We pursue an agenda of human rights here, on behalf of a demographic brutalized, vilified, and silenced by almost all mainstream media. In temporary charge of operations as I am, I endeavour to maintain the site’s character as Mr Elam has set it, but my personal preference is for a considerably more aggressive stance. We have dealt most gently with Jenna so far.
In addition, the claim by you of defamation, whether vicious or otherwise is similarly incorrect. To be defamation, the listing of your wife as a bigot would have to be false.
You have also expressed amazement that she is decried as a feminist ( an ideology which, once examined is demonstrably built on hatred and violence ). Why wouldn’t she be decried as a feminist? She self-identifies as one.
From her original blog posting :
“As a matter of fact, I pick and choose when I’m a feminist“
“…I’m being sexist. The feminist, progressive, modern, cool kid perspective …”
Your next point : “we did not want the neighborhood Dads who happen to volunteer at our school help my little daughter in the bathroom.”
You imply these are random men off the street, while admitting they’re the fathers of children attending the same classes as your daughter. So you share your wife’s asinine and factually insupportable bigotry. Your wife deleted my first comment on her blog, here’s the chart I included in my rebuttal of her lie.
The US Department of health and Human Services show mothers abusing children at more than double the rate of fathers. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/figure3_6.htm .
And yes, that’s the same link I included earlier in this article, and in my comment on Jenna’s blog on October 18 this year, which she deleted. I keep reposting it because like most people, you’re too stupid and lazy to correct your moronic and bigoted cultural assumptions. A fact you further demonstrate with your email to us, Niko.
Mr Karvunidis, you’ve also asked why I and other men’s rights advocates address your wife’s promotion of a debunked statistic rather than direct our ire at the source of that debunked stat. She didn’t cite a source. She just repeated a lie. I was kind enough, in my comment on the blog to provide the source for my correction of her lie, which she deleted. Is that clear enough for you sir?
Your next question, Mr Karvunidis, is does your family’s questioning the schools toilet policy a reason to persecute and embarrass a person – especially one that has apologized to those that she offended.
Questioning the schools policy was never the issue – and if you were honest, you would not attempt to float that stinker in your letter to Mr Elam. The problem was, and remains Jenna Karvunidis’s persitant claim that despite being provided with peer reviewed research, in the face of her her own self-admitted bigotry “I know I’m being sexist” she responded to the objections to her hateful lies with accusation and triumphal gloating.
Quoting her again: “I didn’t care if I was a bigot ”
As for her apology, It was not an apology. Apologies don’t come with disclaimers.
Doctor Tara Palmatier, whose skill in evaluation of human motivation exceeds my own had the following to say about the apology of Jenna Karvunidis
“Apologies never include the word, “but.” What’s more, she is still defending her actions. This woman, with her disingenuous apology, is more dangerous than the other bigots on R-H. Why? Because she was able to con some folks with her expedient crocodile tears and dubious mea culpa.
She’s not sorry for what she did. She’s sorry she’s being publicly called out for it. Big difference.
She still believes painting men as potential molesters was right and she still believes she was right in bullying the daycare.”
Mr Karvunidis, you further state “ I imagine you have bigger fish to fry than a pre-school Mom spooked by a child abuse study”
Yes, we do, and we’ll fry them too. But let’s not pretend your wife is merely a pre-school mom spooked by a discredited study.
Jenna is an activist, not a bystander. Though she may be small-fry in the scheme of things, she has spread hatred against men and is proud of the effect her work has had in her community.
Niko, you go on to opine that your activist wife’s continued placement on a registry of criminals and bigots is “ludicrous”. I’m saddened that anybody sees the opposition to promotion of hatred, lies and the marginalization of half the population is a “ludicrous” endeavour. However, this failure of understanding nicely underscores the continued need for an aggressive and vigorous men’s rights movement.
You also exhort my colleague Mr Elam to cease and desist. No sir, we would do nobody a favour by taking that advice.
Proponents of hate, like your wife continue to shape a public zeitgeist in which the murder of men is excused. The ideologues writing articles and books telling a female electorate that their emotions matter more than facts, and that good men are the ones willing to self sacrifice for female privilege, passed off as empowerment.
This is why what we do, which seems so painful to you is necessary. Identification of, and exposure of ideologues matters. This opposition to hate and violence is why bigots are listed along with rapists, killers, false rape accusers. It is why expose them brightly for the world to see. And why we afford the promoters of hate no mercy and no rest.
However, I would like to thank you for your email, as it afforded me this opportunity to place Jenna Karvunidis’s register-her listing in the category of Bigot back into the spotlight.
Thank you for your kind attention.