We will over the next few weeks present full transcripts of all the presentations at the International Conference on Men’s Issues 2014. Here we bring you Carnell Smith’s speech, the third presentation from Day 2, Saturday, June 28, 2014. Our thanks once again to Rick Westlake for doing the bulk of the work of this transcription. —DE
(Attila Vinczer) One second—Stop, stop, stop—we have four books to give away …
So, start looking at your numbers.
The first one is Bachelor Pad Economics by Aaron Clarey. I’d also like to take this opportunity to thank Aaron for his very generous contribution to this event …
(Fade-out/fade-back.)
Our next speaker is Carnell Smith, who will be talking about paternity fraud. I had the distinct pleasure of spending some time with him yesterday afternoon—well, early evening. And we will have Fred Jones make this introduction. Please put your hands together.
(Applause. Fred Jones takes the podium.)
Test … Possibility, passion, and persistence are the core principles by which our next speaker lives by. As a leading international expert that won his own case after appealing to the United States Supreme Court, Carnell Smith is a national spokesman on family law and DNA-testing issues. He helps people use the law to reclaim their power.
He has written model law, and consulted on legislation in more than ten states. Featured as a guest expert on Dr. Phil, Fox Business News, CBS Early Show, Univision, Fuji TV in Japan, TIME Magazine, Men’s Health Magazine, Reason Magazine, ABC Radio show with Michael Baisman, NPR Radio with Tavis Smiley, Michael Smerconish radio show, the Frank Ski Show, Rolonda Watts show, Jesse Bonds show, Al Sharpton, and many other syndicated talk shows.
Smith is a coach, advocate, speaker, workshop leader, and frequent contributor to TV, radio, newspaper, magazine, and film projects in the United States and abroad. He founded the Citizens Against Paternity Fraud advocacy group, founded the 4Truth Identity DNA Center, co-founded the National Family Justice Association, which is a 501c3 non-profit, launched the PaternityFraud.com and 911DNATest.com websites. Just for the record, I’ve known this young man more than 15 years. And I’m just reading this to be obedient. So stay with me, okay?
Carnell—but it’s all true! He’s authored the Georgia Senate Paternity Fraud Report and the District of Columbia paternity-fraud reports; co-produced “Secret Identity,” the paternity-fraud basis of a movie; co-produced Real Life Media TV CDs; consulted for a paternity-fraud survey with Sharon Squires, Ph.D.; created the Naked Truth University workshop series; created the Operation Social Impact program; founded Carnell Smith Unlimited, a solution-focused consulting firm. His philosophy is “The Mission Is Possible, regardless of the odds, when you make up your mind to go for it.” Smith will release his book, Mission Possible: The Carnell Smith Story, coming 2014, this fall, subtitled, “You don’t have to pay for a child that’s not yours.”
Would you please help me welcome my friend and Mission Possible strategist, Mr. Carnell Smith.
(Applause. Carnell Smith takes the podium.)
All’s good … I’m wired … Good morning! It is a pleasure to be invited here, to the First Conference on Men’s Issues. And … paternity fraud is indeed one of the men’s issues.
I was asked to speak about paternity fraud and misandry, but it wouldn’t be fair, after Tom and I talked, that I not pull the skirt off of, and reveal … “Cupcake Chronicles.” You will find out some things today about Cupcake—and I’m using Cupcake to protect the names of the guilty. But many people make a bad mistake, or try to assume that paternity fraud is “men versus women,” when the truth of the matter is, it is us against an unjust system that is financed by the Evil Empire.
But they made a mistake. They made a mistake of trapping an alpha male, who is an engineer, a trouble-shooter, an escalation-crisis manager … What is the chance that an alpha male is going to lick the hand of the person that trapped him in the cage? Not a chance! … And I’m also an invisible Honey Badger, in case anybody …
A man thought that his troubles were over. He paid child support 15, 16 … and he had a spot marked on his calendar. He had the 18th birthday, for his daughter, marked on the calendar. And when that day came, he got his checkbook out, he was ready to throw a party, he wrote that check, and he said, “I want you to take this check to your mother, and I want you to tell her this is the last dime she’ll ever get out of me.”
The young lady takes the check, she goes back, she hands it to her mom, and then she comes back … with this rather surprising look on her face, she says, “Well, Mom says you’re not my daddy!”
Not funny, is it?
In fact, it is probably one of the cruelest forms of deception … betrayal. Because if it were up to us men, and we could work with the person who had deceived us, we could solve the problem, right there. But now, let’s bring in the Evil Empire that finances the child-support enforcement system. And there are billions of dollars. And their goal is to get massive numbers of paternities established … and may I say, by any means necessary. And herein lies the problem about paternity fraud.
Now, I want you to know that I catch a lot of heat over the fact that I—over 14 years, now, I insist on maintaining the name ‘paternity fraud.’ But it wouldn’t be fair to you that I not tell you what it’s defined as.
Most people are okay with the part about a lawsuit being established, to make a man support his child. Yeah, okay, that’s cool! We want guys to step up to the plate. We want responsible men to step up to the plate and take care of his child. But there’s a little problem here.
The definition, within Parson’s Law, Black’s Law Dictionaries, and a few others, that says “the willful and knowing concealment of a material fact constitutes fraud.” Let’s put the two together, then. Cupcake alleges that someone caused her pregnancy, while she knowingly hides the existence of other paternity candidates. Or how about this? He didn’t do it—and she knew that he didn’t do it. However, she has a motivation … because I’m going to talk about four ways that paternity fraud happens.
Remember now, I didn’t name names; she is Cupcake, okay? Let’s keep that straight, for the record.
Cupcake is not limited to one race. Cupcake is not just limited to one status of whether single or married. Cupcake cuts across religious lines, socioeconomic lines. She has cousins—in fact, you probably know Cupcake. After today, you might know someone who needs to be warned that they’re in a relationship with Cupcake.
But in spite of all of that, Cupcake is really a tool of the Evil Empire, and she herself is being used—but as long as she’s getting paid … Let’s ask Cupcake: Cupcake, do you see anything wrong with lying for money? “N’uh-uh, no, no, no, not—mm-mm, No!” But … it wouldn’t be fair to you, without breaking this down a little further.
So the four things, the four ways that paternity fraud actually happens is … single men, and teen boys; and in the United States, they’ve crafted a very good technique to take advantage of this thing, we men who like to provide and protect. And we tell them, “We need you to come to the hospital, because your baby’s here; and you want your baby to have a father, don’t you?”
And he’s like, “Yeah, well, I’ll sign that, sure.”
Only problem is, they already have a deal with Cupcake: “Now, Cupcake, you can’t get your child support if you don’t get his autograph.”
Now, he comes to the hospital expecting to find a child that’s whose? His! He doesn’t know, though, that the hospital staff are getting paid $20 to $50 for each paternity confession that they get signed … yes, I’m being a little smart-ass when using the term “confession.” We’re asking him to sign a document admitting to a pregnancy with no proof—just on the word of Cupcake. Now, does Cupcake have any incentive to hide material facts? Anybody, do you believe she has an incentive? … Yes, she does.
And if you have a—if you’re a parent of a teenage boy, did you know that your income can be factored into the equation for child support for your un-emancipated son? Now, Cupcake doesn’t see a problem with that. I sure as heck do!
The next area that happens is called “marital paternity fraud.” Marital paternity fraud is based on the common law. Lord Mansfield actually believed that any children born while the wife was married to the husband were automatically his children. Beautiful concept. In fact, in terms of ideology, we’re like, “Yeah! Yeah, that’s right!” But Blackstone put a couple of exceptions in there—EXCEPT when he didn’t have access to her, during the time of conception. Except when he was away on the high seas for more than nine months. And, as you heard earlier today, the children were actually his property. So he didn’t really have to lose anything, other than the fact that he had been shammed by a cuckolding wife.
The next one is “default judgment.” In the United States, they have crafted the art to where the only thing that’s required to make you the father is the pen of a judge, or an administrative-hearing officer, who is not an elected judge. But if your case falls under administrative law, in the United States, it can have the weight and the enforcement of a judge.
Now, what is the problem when there is an incorrect default paternity judgment? I mean, Cupcake, she would never say, “Your Honor, this is my baby’s father, and he refuses to support his child.” And the judge says, “Oh, heck no! We’re not having that! Where is he? Bring that scalawag here! We will—girl, you just be still, I’ll get that wallet for you.”
However, Cupcake gave the judge the wrong address. And the guy who’s accused does not make it to that first hearing. And in the State of California, they were so good at perfecting, getting default judgments, that in 2005 they were able to get 70%—nearly 380,000—paternities established by the power of the pen.
And then they said, “It’s your fault that you didn’t make it to that first court hearing.”
“But, Your Honor, I was deployed in Afghanistan at the time. And for me to be the father, she would have to have had a gestation of 11 months! Your Honor, you can add, can’t you?”
“Don’t you say another word.”
You still have to respect the power and authority of the court, but—“Your Honor, can you bring Cupcake here? I mean, if I had a kid that she carried for 11 months, I want to see this! In fact, let’s call the TV crews! ’Cause this is a major feat—this should be, like, the Ninth Wonder of the World!”
Unfortunately, for men and teen boys that miss that first hearing, his problem’s going to be that at this point there’s now an order established. And the Child Support Enforcement attorney says, “Your Honor, it’s not our duty to determine if he’s the father. We have an order here, and it’s the court’s job to enforce this order.” And Cupcake’s over there, going, “Yeahhh! Your job, Your Honor, is to get my money.” So ordered. So ordered.
And I know, by the looks of some of your faces, you’re like, “Man, that guy is putting us on, man, that stuff doesn’t happen!”
What about this last category? “Mistaken identity.”
I had a client, who is a young man, who was going to the Atlanta airport; he was going to pick up a relative who was coming in town. He made a wrong turn, and he ended up going up a one-way street. Now, the local law enforcement saw this, and decided that he needed to be educated on proper driving. And, they ran his name, after he showed his ID—he apologized profusely for making this wrong turn; he was trying to get to the airport to pick up his relative. What he didn’t know—there was a guy who had a warrant for outstanding child support, who had exactly the same name that he did.
You have no idea what happens next, so I’m going to tell you what happens next: this is what happened next. (Crosses his hands behind his back.) Even though the warrant described a guy who was six-foot-one, 140 pounds, who was as lovely-complected as I am. Only problem is, this young man, who became my client and I got an attorney for him—and I offered him my DNA-testing services, ’cause if he was right, I wanted to make sure that Cupcake got all of the credit she so richly deserved!
And they put this young man in jail for three days; and because he complained so much, the jailer modified the information on the warrant to match my client that was locked up!
Here’s the problem: My client had the same name, but he was only five-foot-six. And he was also muscular. And he also had a much lighter complexion than me. I could tell that this guy didn’t look like the guy in the warrant, without my glasses! And I’m extremely nearsighted, so … Dogs run out of the way when I’m driving, so you don’t want me driving without my glasses, but … I believe that the local law enforcement were capable of identifying the correct person versus the warrant.
Here’s what it took for us to extricate my client out of that mess: we actually had to file a motion and demand that Cupcake be picked up, bring her and her child to the court, so that I could provide the legal DNA collection services with full chain-of-custody, photograph, fingerprint; add tracking to and from the lab; and I was going to do a rush job on this because, you know, if my guy was really guilty, then, you know, he should be responsible! Right?
Well, Cupcake came reluctantly to court, with an escort, because we insisted that she come to appear before the court to identify this person. And Cupcake says, ‘That ain’t him!’ And the court—I said, Well, let’s order the DNA test, so that my client will never, ever, have to face this again. And the court, in its infinite wisdom, said, No … No.
I consider that to be a travesty of justice.
Dr. Martin Luther King said that a threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And if we can do this to a guy whose only fault was making the wrong turn, to fall in the scope and radar of the local law enforcement—because he had the same name, that he didn’t get to pick, by the way; I guess he could blame his parents—but to put him in jail for three days, and then try to cover it up by modifying the warrant! But you do know that there are records that you can subpoena … oh, I’m also an expert witness for court, by the way. And since I was one of those people that got caught in that trap, I make it my mission to help those people who’ve been caught and tricked. They deserve to have justice. They need to have a fair day, because the decision should be made once and for all.
But let me tell you something else about Cupcake. See, I have other clients. And I had a married guy, who thought that he was the Ultimate Guy—he was Mister Handsome. He was so good, and so good-looking, that he felt that he should have a wife and a girlfriend. Now, this is not a debate about what’s right and what’s wrong … but his girlfriend was tired of his wife, and the fact that he wouldn’t leave his wife.
The girlfriend filed for child support and invoked the power of the Evil Empire against him. And the wife, when she got that warrant, and had the police come serve her husband—she said, “Well, I want a paternity test on the girlfriend’s children! Both of them!” Well … the girlfriend said, “Well, he should get a paternity test on your kids, too!”
And the attorney for Mister Handsome knows that I provide services on-site, live, at the courtroom, says, “Well, let’s settle the matter. Why don’t we do DNA testing on all of them?” And I said, You know, that’s a fine idea. That’s a fine idea. So I provided the services, and in about three days, the truth came back. He was married to Cupcake, and he was also dating Cupcake! All of the children from the girlfriend, Child 1 and Child 2, are not his; all of the children from his wife are not his. But only men get credit for this type of activity.
I want you to know that Mister Handsome didn’t feel too big and too bad after this. In fact, he turned in his Player Card, ’cause Cupcake showed him, “Fool, we wrote the rules here.” There’s one good thing that happened for him: we helped him determine what the facts were before there was a court order against him. His life would have been extremely difficult had it not been that his lawyers knew me, because I was providing services on-site at court. He would have, in most circumstances, been ordered to pay child support for four children that are not his; to have his income calculated based on his gross income; and, oh, by the way, you can’t visit them. I’m going to talk about “best interests of the child” as one of the objections of why I say the law should be changed.
But the other thing that would have helped him is that in my state, Georgia, there is legislation on the books that says, any time there’s an open court order, and you can meet the conditions, the court will have to address this issue. But there’s only two states in the whole United States that have an unlimited time limit; and that’s Georgia, where I am the guy, the alpha male, who was willing to “open up a can of whoop” because they picked on me and my family, and they told me that my wife and my newborn daughter didn’t matter. They told me that they’re invisible, because this order that’s before the court … the only one that we’re talking about is the child from your former girlfriend.
And I found out, after 11 years, this beautiful, intelligent, witty little girl, that I and my family loved dearly, is not my child. And the first thing that Cupcake said, “That DNA test can’t be right.” So—me being the sporting guy that I am—“You pick any lab that you want to, and I’ll take another test! This time, with you.” Well, sure enough, the lab that she picked—took a lot longer than our lab; we aren’t trying to compare here, but—results come back, zero point zero percent paternity. And she’s like, “I have no idea what happened.”
I don’t want to make light of this, but see, the impact to men, in the area of paternity fraud, is so intertwined and intertangled with all of the other things that happen to men, throughout this human rights movement, this fathers’ rights movement, is that men become depressed—nervous breakdown—stressed—because the Evil Empire then pulls a gun on him and says, “You’re going to give up that money or you’re going to jail.”
I don’t know about you, but that could be some powerful motivation to say, “I will not be silenced. I will not just lie down and take this. I will fight this if it’s my last dying breath, and I’m going to do so on national television; because as a man who’s born in America, a free man, I’m going to call out my state for supporting slavery against men—involuntary servitude.” Because what you do in paternity fraud is, you turn that man and that boy into a wage-slave. And therefore, he becomes “income-producing property.”
And as a wage-slave, he is income-producing property of the Evil Empire. And why should the Evil Empire change its order of business—you know, modus operandi—why should they change that, because we got him! “Well, Your Honor, it’s his fault that he didn’t figure out that Cupcake tricked him.” And Cupcake says, “Yeah! That’s right! I tricked him fair and square!”
And it’s only funny to the people who don’t understand what it’s like, that, for us guys who love being an active dad. We love being involved with our kids. But when you’re a paternity-fraud victim, and you even want to have a relationship with a child that you now found out is not yours … the infinite wise court says, “But you’re not a relative!” WTF?—well, that means What The Freak for me, okay? I mean … feel free to use your own definition, okay?
But the same court says to me—the parents that have teen sons, those married men—the same court says, “But now, get your hand off that wallet. Now that’s ours. Look—we got it first, you didn’t figure it out, and therefore we’re going to keep you on the Pay or Go to Jail. And oh, by the way, if you lose your job, or your job loses you, you’re still responsible for making that payment at the same level while you’re unemployed.”
And if you don’t think that actually happens, feel free to visit PaternityFraud.com, and look on my website at a young man named Frank Hatley. And Frank had a girlfriend, named Cupcake! And Cupcake told Frank, “I’m pregnant, and you’re the baby’s father.” And Frank was like, “Yeah! I’m going to be a daddy, and it’s a son!” But somebody told him that, well, you know, Cupcake has some extracurricular friends. Say it with me: Whaaaat? “Yes. Yes, she has extracurricular friends.” So he gets a paternity test, and sure enough, “You Are NOT the Father.” And—to fair-minded, sensible people—we would say, Well, the problem’s over with, right? It’s done.
That’s not what happened for Frank … Frank, then, lost his job. Or should I say, his job lost him? Because the company downsized. They were having some tough times, and they had to cut back on their staffing. And our good friend Frank, here, ends up living on unemployment. And then when unemployment ran out, Frank lived in his car.
Remember, I said that Frank’s got a paternity test that proved he’s been framed for a pregnancy that he didn’t commit, and we can prove it.
Well, once his unemployment ran out, he no longer had any money to pay on the child support. And the judge and the child-support enforcement attorney promptly requested that he be jailed and incarcerated. And by the way, we’ll let him out when he pays the back money. Sounds fair to you, right? After all, she tricked him fair-and-square.
The only person who had compassion on Frank was the sheriff at the jail. They contacted the Southern Law Human Rights Center in Atlanta. Well, by this time, the law that I had won with … Frank was just the guy that I was looking for, who couldn’t afford to fight back; who couldn’t put up $20,000, like I did, for a retainer. I didn’t feel that no one should have to pay for their freedom—because the price of justice was just too darn high!
That law got Frank out of jail, erased all of the child-support arrears, and he is now happily living with his family. But guess what? He’s still hurting. He’s been wounded, emotionally, financially … and guess what? He has a record now. And did you know that in some places, the fact that he’s been in jail—they won’t ask why; the fact that he was locked up is “his fault.”
In all fairness, not trying to titillate you, but you should be aware that there is a problem when I can tell you that, over the last 10 years, there have been over one million men tested in the United States, and over 33% of them, depending on which year, turned out to not be the fathers. And we are not sure that all of them have been set free.
So from my perspective as the alpha male who’s caught in the trap, we must study this thing. There is something required in order to prevent this problem. So I found a woman who is the head of a child-support enforcement agency, and she had a brilliant idea: she said we should do DNA testing at birth! I was like, yeah …
You’re not going to clap after this, though: she said a woman shouldn’t be forced to put her husband’s name on the birth certificate when the boyfriend is the daddy. And people said, “Yeah, it should be her choice!”
Carnell Smith comes along and says the same thing that she said—well, we should do automatic DNA testing at birth because that would stop paternity fraud within a week of leaving the hospital. Lo and behold, I’ve been told that I’m against women—“What about the best interests of the child?” I’m like, Well, what about every child having the right to know that the truth’s on their birth certificate?
Cupcake, in her infinite wisdom, says, “No, but you’re trying to be unfair. You’re not being reasonable—and quit trying to confuse us with the facts! ’Cause, it’s all about the child.” Until you say, Well, the best interests of the child, why does that include having a relationship—why not have a relationship with the children that ARE yours?
I told Cupcake, in my case, that my family and I love your daughter. And we’re willing to still do for her because of our relationship with her. And Cupcake said, “If you’re not willing to pay me money under the Pay-or-Go-to-Jail Evil Empire, you cannot see her.” I was like, You sure about that? And in all the media stories, only one or two you’ll find that I was the guy still trying to see the child who wasn’t mine, but outside of the court system. I understood the power of the Evil Empire.
And the solution for this whole mess? If we could get Cupcake to tell the truth 100% of the time, before there was a court order, before there was a no-fault divorce, before there was a transfer of marital assets and property, I think we could have worked it out—we could have solved it, and said, Well, look, just let us have a relationship.
Some of you may have seen me on the Dr. Phil show, where I debated a very—well, maybe not debated, maybe a spirited discussion—with the attorney Gloria Allred. According to the audience, I won that debate. Because here was the tipping-point question: Gloria Allred said that my client, who was there with me, the doctor—he should have known that Cupcake was lying to him because he has a medical doctorate degree! And I said, Yes, okay, yes, he’s supposed to be like Mister Spock and able to apply a Vulcan Mind Meld Technique—like, boy, are you way off base! I said, If she’s woman enough to have the affair, she should be woman enough to step up to the plate and say, yes, I messed up my marriage. Yes, I did that, and I’ll be responsible.
I want to part with this: the laws can be changed. But you have to first believe that it’s possible. If you do nothing, then nothing changes.
People contact me saying they know someone who’s affected. Now, you’ve got a choice. You can go try to do what I’ve done now for 14 years, and run the risk of doing it wrong; or you can hire people like me and Diana Thompson and Murray Davis, who have been effective in getting legislation in place, writing laws—and by the way, in my state, I garnered over 99.5% of the support of both houses and the governor. It’s not a partisan issue. It’s a human rights issue. Men and boys are good!
You need to know about Cupcake. Cupcake is used by the Evil Empire, to meet their quota of paternities—numbers. But nowhere in the financing of the state does it say they have to be accurate paternity establishments. Expose the issue. Expose the fact that there are solutions, and there are people, like the alpha man, the dude that wouldn’t quit, the guy who’s a proud member of the Open Can of Whoop Club …
Will you join me?
(Applause. Attila Vinczer comes on stage, and Carnell Smith leaves the podium.)
Carnell, thank you so much—your work is invaluable. The conditions that men face in this area are daunting, and simply just unbelievable. Thank you.
